you can't always get what you want in the 60s. pearl jam and nirvana also culturally impactful and i want to show one tweet. someone said i still haven't found what i'm looking for from 1987 in san francisco. for me too, when i saw the tour at the boston garden in '88 that was a big deal for me. morning joe starts right now. ♪ who loves the sun ♪ who cares that it may -- >> pick him off. this game is over! >> oh, my lord. what a weekend. >> that cannot happen. >> you told me this. you told me last night after the game was over, i was watching that and she said i believe,

it's the first time in the history in 19 years of post-season baseball that a game ended. >> a lot of people don't know this. mika got her start at a live sports bureau. >> did she call you the night before about the obstruction play? >> what a weekend. obstruction like the republicans. >> somebody tweeted inside the heart, home run off a butt. >> what a series. >> it's great fun. >> crazy. >> so we're listening background, obviously, velvet underground, lou reed passed away. >> good morning everyone. it's monday, october 28th. with us on set we have a chairman of deutsch incorporated. are those -- >> warby parker. >> started by a young university

of pennsylvania gentleman. >> they are totally for looks only. no use except that you decided you wanted to do the glasses today. you need glasses. you're blind as a bat. vanity glasses that's the word i'm looking for. senior political reporter for politico, maggie is here. in washington, associated editor for "the washington post," david ignatius joins us this morning. good morning. hello willie, hello joe. we'll start with that. music you were listening to. he once said i have a b.a. in dope and hpda in soul. lou reed, lead singer of the band velvet underground has died. the word icon gets thrown around a lot but little way to describe him. he influenced musicians spanning from david bowie to talking

heads and beyond. velvet underground was fay spousely backed by andy warhol with the iconic warhol banana. by industry standards the album was a flop, selling only 30,000 copies in its first five years. one producer characterized the group's influence by saying quote, everyone who bought one of those 30,000 copies started a band. it was reed's solo career that spawned perhaps his most famous single "walk on the wild side." his music could be complicated and confounding. he was open about his experiences with drugs and sex and said his inspiration came from a primal face which included his home town of new york. >> i'm just a rocknroll guy. i like to turn the guitar up and make noise. that's how ideal with stress. >> and ideas just come to you. you're ridge in a cab and you are thinking of a great theme

for a song? >> ideas are knocking on my door almost 24 hours a day. i'm an insonnmniac. >> reed is believed to have died due to complications from a liver transplant. he was 71 years old. >> willie, the guy is king of the new york music scene. always was. he has a great quote. when it came to song writing, one chord is good. two chords were okay. but you go to three chords you're starting to push it. it's almost like jazz. he believed in rocknroll. >> mika read some of the lists but the people who were inspired by him all the way, we talked about david bowie but r.e.m.,

strokes, the whole punk movement there was lou reed. you can trace it back to one guy, lou reed. >> it's also interesting rocknroll where it's tentacles expand. first time an advertising used pop music which is commonplace today. so interesting where you see an icon like this guy really touches. very interesting. >> beyond the rockers he influenced beyond him he inspired so many covers. his music has been played in so many different ways. his sound has been interpreted in so many different ways. >> people often talk about music coming from a dark place. he never looks happy in any picture. in any picture, even though his picture was incredible. let's move on to other big stories we have this morning. this one is for david ignatius.

the nsa spying extends to some of the closest allies abroad. the national security agency end ad program that spied on as many as 35 world leaders after the white house order an internal review over the summer. several programs have already been shut down and others are expected to be closed at a later date. the report states president obama spent nearly five years in office in the dark, unaware of the nsa's practices overseas. officials say the targets of these programs are not typically decided by the president, but by the agency. yesterday congressman peter king defended the nsa's program saying they should be viewed as a positive thing for everyone involved. >> i think the president should stop apologizing, stop being defensive. the reality is the nsa has saved

thousands of lives not just in the u.p.s. but france and germany and throughout europe. we're trying to gatherable against that helps us and helps the europeans. >> there are reports that the president did know that angela merkel's cell phone was being tapped. >> talk about a confounding story in terms of not understanding the concept as to why we would do this. why it would go unknown by the president if it was. david ignatius can you put this in perspective and snowden's role. is he still such a menace or is he revealing things we need to know? >> first about nsa collection, it seems increasingly clear if nsa could collect a signal it would. and just add to this ever greater pile of data. analysts couldn't possibly have gone through and made sense of all the signals that they had access to. in terms of spying on the world

leaders, the 35 world leaders which is the latest thing that's riled the europeans and people all over the world, it's hard to imagine, if you captured something of interest from angela merkel's cell phone that reference to that wouldn't end up in the president's daily brief. may not say obtained through surveillance of her cell phone but the intelligence would be there otherwise why would you have it? snowden revelations, just keep rolling at the world and at the obama administration. i'm surprised there's not more push back because it's triggered a response by major nations, france, germany, even britain that's been our partner said it will work with the europeans for new rules. we'll come out of this with new rules that the nsa has to live with. somewhat more limited collection of these signals. the question we'll have to sort out does that put the country at

any greater risk of attacks. does it take away any weapons that were important in defending the united states and our allies for that matter as we go to greater protection of civil liberties. >> does anybody around this table believe the nsa would tap the phone of one of america's most important allies, the cell phone of a wld leader like angela merkel. does anybody believe the president would be kept in the dark? >> i believe there's such -- >> it's one thing if you tap the phones -- >> i don't think the president was tapping merkel's phone. >> you don't think that the president knew -- >> he may have gotten the data. i don't believe that. >> which is worse? >> that's terrible. >> if the president doesn't know this is happening. >> doesn't know about the irs. doesn't know about the website

that's going to collapse. >> the question is what kind of damage at this point, i would love to hear everyone's point of view on this, does this do to the relationship. no matter what we do to try to fix it at this point the damage is done. >> let me ask another question. what would we think if we found out angela merkel was tapping barack obama's phone or these other world leaders. holy cow. this is outrageous. >> that's why it's such a big story in europe. you don't see it here. it's a lead story in the "journal." it's a huge story in europe. what is the long term impact of this, angela merkel has come out publicly and said we got some work to do to repair the damage from this. does this affect our relationship with germany and beyond? >> it certainly is a political issue between the u.s. and

german governments. the larger thing people should be aware of is in reaction to these allegations european companies are saying to european business customers you can't trust your data with the united states. go to this cloud service provider, don't go to amazon. identify seen an estimate that $25 to $35 billion worth of business in the cloud computing area alone could be lost because of this. countries will enact their own data laws. internet that we think is unbroken and open around the world i fear it will be segmented as countries have their own rules and own protections. >> about six years ago when the president was running, you know if he gets in there our reputation around the world will be so much better. everybody hates george w. bush. this is all we need for a brand

new world. little did we know while he was giving that speech in berlin his people were bugging every office. think about the damage this has done and this is one more of those bush/cheney programs that this administration has taken to ridiculous lengths. >> the real world implications is massive. the damage has been done that's not just political but mic economically. the idea that the president doesn't know about these things over and over again -- i imagine people think it's a better explanation than saying he did know. that's hard for me to see how it's a positive. if that is true that's alarming. given that they are arguing this wholesale review we have not heard a revamp of this from the president. he made his speech, he made his

press conference. he needs to go back and explain exactly what's happening. these revelations keep coming and more will continue. >> one more story before we go to break. over the weekend the affordable care act main website went into a bit of an overhaul. >> that's good. i should have gone on it yesterday. instead of watching football, if they had an overhaul -- >> buy one get one free. >> willie, sign right up. >> okay, boys. >> it shut down yesterday. >> it highlights the way you can enroll including the use of a navigator for consumers to purchase health coverage. the website couldn't make to it monday without experiencing another major issue. hhs officials say the system was down late sunday because of an outage due to one of its data

centers. >> so, donny, you've done a lot of successful launches. so help me out here. this goes one of two ways. this either causes serious problems and has a lingering effect which terrible launches have that impact on certain products, or it's the sort of thing next january we're looking back and going huh? what? how does this go? >> once again let's separate the success of a concept of this new law versus the technological execution. i think the average american can distinguish between the two. we're asking for a sea change the way americans behave. a year from now of course there were a lot of kinks. they will fix it. i think it will take a year. >> how do you know that? >> i think they will -- >> listen to bill clinton.

you love bill clinton. >> this is massive. the trap door, the boobie trap for the republicans if they spend the next six to nine months if they focus on execution than the brand of their party -- >> this next sound bite is a stretch. i tried it on friday. it rang hollow. when the former president does it it works, but you can tell he has to like really try to talk around it. he doesn't have that thing. president bill clinton defended the program and its roll out while campaigning in virginia for terry mcauliffe. >> look at america today. we got to implement this health care law. the computer deal will get fixed up. don't worry about that. everybody forgot when president george w. bush a republican put that medicare part d drug program in it was more unpopular

than the health care law and they had terrible problems with the computers. but our side we're not so ideological so instead of bashing them our people tried to help most people understand the law and help get it work and getting it fixed. difference between being an ideologue and -- >> president bush, his song all conservatives given away prescription drugs to senior citizens was not unpopular concept. >> he does a good job kind of. >> you know what the president should do -- >> that challenger thing. >> the president should get in front. i think this is a nine to 12 month process.

>> he did. look i actually agree with them but i think the medicare part d argument and the whole, that's just grasping. this is a bad roll out. it can be fixed. a website can be fixed. the effects of shutting down the government and doing what the anti-obama care group in congress did far more dangerous and long lasting in terms of its implication, that's the bottom line. thanks for wasting that money. >> maggie, we got some problems here with roll out. right? a little bit of problems. but bigger problem "l.a. times" had a story yesterday that actually there are a lot of californians that are finding have been dropped from their insurance and then they are going out and trying to get new health insurance and they are finding out it's costing them a lot more. for some middle class people, a lot of middle class people. they get dropped unsceremonousl.

the website will get fixed. the question is now you have into bill clinton's thing people don't focus on that, we're looking at these technical glitches will get done. there is this question of how many people get signed up by march and that's when this deadline is. there's some democrats calling for a delay. >> joe manchin is calling for a year and jean shaheen up in new hampshire not a right-winger talking about a delay. >> it tells you this is going to be an ongoing issue for people looking at elections next year. they are concerned about it. they are concerned about the success of this program depends on how many people, young people who are not in ill health enrolls. to the extent this website are masking other issues like sticker shock, to some extent the administration should be happy that people are focusing

on the website. >> isn't that the story, we don't know the markets may adjust six months from now. but that really is a bigger challenge than a website launch, right? >> i think people feel they are out of pocket for this new reform that was promoted to them they will be unhappy and angry. whether the benefits that ordinary folks feel in terms of having protection, being able to change jobs without worrying so much, whether those out weigh sticker shock problems we'll have to say. you worry sometimes that the country wasn't ready politically or technologically for the breadth of what the administration tried to do. >> coming up on "morning joe," former vice president dick cheney will be here on the set plus politico strategist david axelrod, senator tom coburn and dr. nancy snyderman. up next the top stories in the

politico playbook. but first bill karins. >> halloween forecast looks iffy for millions of people across this country. we have a big storm moving across the nation bringing a lot of heavy rain with it. it's cold in montana. that's where the storm is located in the intermountain west providing snow in montana, even areas of northern nevada, higher elevations near billings, montana and out there in the plain. rapid city and black hills will be getting some snow. we turn from a snowstorm to a big rain storm in the middle of the country. not so much today. we're okay today. east of the rockies you're all right. chance of some showers in chicago and atlanta. no significant airport delays. as we get towards the halloween forecast one of those areas we're targeting up through the great lakes. a big rain maker for chicago, detroit, cleveland, indianapolis, all the way down through nashville, louisiana and east texas. we're talking about a lot of big

cities and unfortunately looks like a lot of west trick or treaters on thursday. i'll pinpoint that forecast as halloween approaches. washington, d.c., you're looking for a nice warm up this week. your rain doesn't arrive until friday. you're watching "morning joe". ready to run your lines? okay, who helps you focus on your recovery? yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it. helps you focus on getting back to normal? [ as a southern belle ] aflac. [ as a cowboy ] aflac. [ sassily ] aflac. uh huh. [ under his breath ] i am so fired. you're on in 5, duck. [ male announcer ] when you're sick or hurt, aflac pays you cash. find out more at aflac.com. [ male announcer ] when you're sick or hurt, aflac pays you cash. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really.

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ideolog ideologue >> time to take a look at the morning papers from our parade of papers. the raleigh observer a carnival rider is under arrest accused of tampering with the ride the vortex. five people were hurt at the ride. the operator face three felony counts for assault with a deadly weapon. the injuries happened when the vortex restarted as passengers were getting off the ride, knocking five people unconscious. three of them reportedly still in the hospital. authorities in oklahoma are searching for four inmates after

they escaped through a trap door above a shower on saturday night. the four men climbed through the opening above one of the showerheads and the county sheriff realized something was wrong for the first time when his department got reports of men running through the streets in orange. >> that's a bad sign. >> four inmates are being held on charges ranging from burglary, drugs, escaping from a law enforcement officer and probation violations. >> "the washington post," violence continues in iraq with death tolls reaching their highest levels since 2008. on sunday alone nine car bombs killed dozens in baghdad. this brings a number of those killed to more than 5300 this year. iraqi prime minister will head to the u.s. this week and is expected to ask for help from the u.s. to fight al qaeda. and the "new york daily news," macy's is defending itself against allegations of racial profiling. it's being dubbed shop and

frisk. some shoppers say they are wrongly accused of shoplifting because of their race. the latest accusation involves actor rob brown who said he was racially profiled and accused of using a fake credit card while purchasing an expensive watch at the flagship store in manhattan. brown was detained and handcuffed for an hour at macy's. the company released a statement claiming its store personnel were not involved. >> star ledger new jersey governor chris christie is getting a boost from former basketball star shaquille o'neal. he appears in a 30 second commercial explaining his support for the governor. he mentions christie's commitment to education and refers to him as a great man. the election is set for november 5th. >> didn't see that one coming. the "new york times" a new study finds children are returning to mobile devices more often than after. children have started using smartphones and kindles. they are using devices earlier. the study found 70% of children

now have a tablet device of their own. >> i was in the apple store this weekend. i was there for eight hours. >> how was that for you? >> not fun. they had this little table with little ball chairs around it and there were 2-year-olds, and there were four tables like that and parents just hanging around, letting their kids being obsessed with the ipad and going like this. they were little kid. >> yes. >> they were whizes on the ipad. since i was waiting for hours i got to watch that for hours. >> that's fantastic. willie, your kids -- >> yeah, george geist. he's good with the touch screen. >> maybe we can put him in charge of fixes up this obama care. >> the website. >> send our kids in there. >> how is young master geist's -- >> george has a black tuxedo he

pulls out and wears to school some days. that's a story for another day. >> that's so cute. >> let's go to mr. mike allen the chief white house correspondent for politico. he has a look at the playbook. mike, good morning. so let's talk a little bit about dick cheney. he'll be here with us in our next hour. his daughter liz challenging the incumbent republican senator in wyoming. cheney set the record straight yesterday. he was on the sunday morning show talking about who his friends are and talking about fundraising. >> mike also said he and i are fishing buddies which is not true. never happened. the fact of the matter is washington will not elect the next senator from wyoming the people from wyoming will elect. you go back and review his finances he gets 84% of his campaign funds from washington based p.a.c.s. that's more than any senator of either party. he doesn't get much money from wyoming. liz got 25% of her funds from

wyoming he got 13% of his from wyoming. >> he's not my fishing buddy. what's going on in this race. does liz cheney closing any ground here? >> seizure is. people in wyoming say that it's a small state, unpredictable electorate. she could win. she's going to have more money. very surprising here. this is by far the toughest, the vice president has been in anything he's said publicly during this race. and when he denied being the senator's fishing buddy that campaign conceded when they said they were fishing buddy. what he meant is they had chatted about fishing at a tournament they both appeared at. the enzi campaign said we thought vice president and senator enzi shared is a love of wyoming fishing. what we're seeing here is that the family is getting involved on liz's side that will definitely help with fundraising, and will help her among the senators here in washington.

>> what's going on in this race, maggie, as you watch now dick cheney come out for his daughter liz cheney. getting very involved. that's the campaign talking points where enzi's money is coming from. >> i think enzi is still the favorite. it's hard to see it any other way. you're seeing the former vice president ratchet up his criticism. right now liz cheney has not been running a terrific race. and enzi has not had a challenge in a long time and is running smarter than people thought. she's perceived as not being from wyoming. that's something she's had to contend with. she's not raised a lot of concerns about it so far. >> that's what dick cheney is fighting and the campaign is fighting on where the money is coming from. >> and the idea we're not pals and i didn't do anything to hurt you. >> meanwhile, mike in kentucky another senate race, mitch mcconnell and allison grimes the secretary of state. grimes out with a new ad

targeting mcconnell over the government's shutdown. check it out. >> he calls himself a proud guardian of gridlock. he's blocked the senate over 400 times. then voted to shut down the government hurting kentucky's economy. mitch mcconnell can't light the house on fire and then claim credit for putting it out especially while it's still burning. >> that is a web ad from the grimes campaign. fume pyrotecpyrotechnics. >> the sub text of this ad is the games senator mcconnell is playing in washington are hurting kentuckyians. that's the message that the grimes campaign is going to try to push. at the same time senator mcconnell has a two front battle coming up in the spring.

he first has a republican primary against tea partiers. this is why you see senator mcconnell his allies in washington increasingly worried about a race that people thought would be tough but fine the end. now republicans in washington are predicting how it will come out. >> we'll see if this s.a.d. precursor for 2014 democratic strategy of going after tea partiers. >> looks like they are taking that step. mike, thanks so much. coming up next the founder of dead spin, will leach big cardinals fan along with mike barnacle. i can't remember who he roots for. they are live in st. louis following game four of the world series. another wild game. we'll be right back with will and mike. (dad) just feather it out. that's right.

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all right. let's talk some world series. mike barnacle, thrilled to be up with us at this hour in the central time zone from st. louis. along with senior writer for sports on earth.com and founding editor of sport website dead spin.

gentlemen, good morning. >> good morning. >> wow, quick response. >> it was a quick response. >> look how happy they are. >> so, mike, unbelievable ending to boston these games. first, in the over 100 year history series last night no difference. what a move by koji uehara to first base. >> staggering back-to-back endings, staggering. the controversial play that will live in history saturday night. last night a run picked up on first. i have no idea how the game will end tonight. but we can only guess. inside the park home run. >> let's talk quickly about a guy who has been forgotten. clay buchholtz had one of the gutsiest performances. he couldn't pitch the ball over 86 miles per hour but he was putting them where they needed to be put. >> i don't know whether will will agree with me. you can throw a 90 like the cardinal pitchers. but it's location, location,

location. like real estate. that's what buchholtz had going. >> will, what's going on in cardinal nation now? you're tied at 2-2. another game tonight at st. louis. wainwright didn't look good in game one but you have to believe he'll pitch better tonight. how are cardinal fans feeling? >> the way the series has gone basically, after the game is over and this is a crazy series. cardinal fans feel pretty confident with wainwright on mound. he talked yesterday about how he really didn't have the great stuff in his pitches in game one that he's used to having. he's the type of guy you expect him to go well. so too lester. i feel bad about colton long. had one of his best games in his career. after the game he was crying, he was very emotional. fortunately, i think he's in the right city.

the last cardinal that like fans hated was gary templeton in 1981 because he fought with whitey herzog. >> are you saying that because i said suck it up, articleton? >> people in st. louis are nicer. >> can we talk about a guy who, let's face it, we've been calling the dog for the past couple of years behind his back for good reason but john lackey, his post-season -- he's pitched two of his best performances ever in boston and then last night he comes on in the eighth as a reliever. who would have believed that even a month ago? >> it would be hard to believe at any point prior to july but he's had an incredible stretch run. he's playoff pressure proven. won the world series games. he's won the clincher of a world series game before with the california angels. all the baggage, the chicken and

beer, that's all gone. all we remember now is the hero, this strong silent john wayne, john lackey type. >> still some chicken and beer. >> game five winner wins the series? >> no. no. >> sounds like a guy who thinks they will lose. >> guys talk -- >> talk about how funny baseball is. johnny gomes not supposed to play last night but got the call. who would have believed a guy who wasn't hitting at all win as game. >> will and i were tailbacking earlier and we have been talking even though he's a young misguided kid. you know, the nfl cannot approach what is happening in this world series or in great baseball series because it's a conversational sport. you get incident after incident to talk about. these games have been treasure

troves. >> so much went into the decision. there's probably ten different debate topics just on that one at-bat and that was before the home run. >> unbelievable. willie, this looks like it hurt. >> good luck job. all right will and mike thank you so much. >> hey, mike, we need to call larry today and need to do game six. >> we're all set. >> from fenway. >> you'll be face elimination so you need thereabout. >> joe, if the red sox win tonight on game six you are the starting pitcher. >> love it. >> will you ask larry if we can do the show there >> that's done. absolutely. we're there. >> the mayor at fenway has got it done. i know that guy. i saw him in "the departed."

>> i hope they let us. >> brian shactman doesn't have the barnacle connection. >> okay, guys thanks so much. coming up next we got "the new yorker" here joining us for the must read opinion pages with steve coll. the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day.

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i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. >> i'm convinced we're facing a new paradigm in politics. it's a paradigm that's the rise of the grassroots. i got to tell you, it has official washington absolutely terrified. just keep your head down and we'll win races. that's not how you win races.

that's based on the oh, so clever idea that if your opponent is here on spectrum that you want to be to the right so that you can capture every marginal vote are right up to where they are. the problem is if you do that you destroy every single reason anyone has to show up and vote. okay. here with us now, staff writer for "the new yorker" and dean of columbia university school of journalism, steve coll. steve i'll read from your piece in "the new yorker" entitled party crashers. the tea party's approval ratings have plummeted cities in shutdown ended like a guerilla army the tea spaert learning how the influence public opinion even when it lose as conventional battle. the tea party's anti-intellectualism reflects a longer deeper decline in the republican party's ability to

the terrify less rate a diversity of ideas and public-point strategies. mitt romney's poor showing among latino voters in 2012 helped ensure barack obama's re-election, republican leaders, have a chateened and without any other obvious way to increase their vote base before 2016, pledged earlier this year. yet party leaders in part because they have been tied down since july by the debt confrontation haven't found a way to move legislation past the nativist caucus in the house. i'll go back to this anti-intellectual. deeper decline in the republican party. isn't it possible that this tea party movement or this battle over the debt ceiling, the government shutdown could help clean out the extremists part of the republican party because people are beginning to lose faith in it? >> well every purge reaches a point where the tide turns the other way and it goes too far

and there's a question now in the aftermath of the government shutdown is whether the republican spaert going to rally back around its sort of center right establishment. as we've seen in earlier discussion this morning, most of the stallworth republican senators who are up next year face primary elections and they face competitive democratic candidates. they have to spend five or six months spending money and running hard against tea party candidate. it's going to make them as with mitch mcconnell in kentucky, you know, they are going to have a tougher time in the general tleex even if they get past the primary. >> do you think there will be a purge particularly in the house? if you go district by district, the conservative republicans who are harshest about obama care and the shutdown and everything else are being rewarded in their districts. it's what their constituents wanted. where does the purge come from in the house? >> that's the structure of the gridlock, i think. partly those districts are super safe which encourages everyone

to run to trite. partly you have this narrative of rewarding the rebels because no great damage in the end was done in a lot of those districts. statewide in a place like kentucky you can make the case like the grimes campaign did, a state that takes in more federal money than it pays back in taxes damaged kentuckyians. statewide you can run that way. but these house districts it's hard to sell that story. >> david ignatius people talk about the republican party. there's so many different republican parties. i talk about, you got the governors. and the success of the governors that they've had. then you got basically the senate wing of the republican party and then the house wing of the republican party. and what works for one definitely doesn't work for the other and certainly what works for some house members actually undermines presidential candidates who have any, any dream of being able to compete with hillary clinton. >> we'll see if the chris

christie wing of the party, the party that will talk about how to govern and make a big state like new jersey work if that gets traction. one of the things i've been following the last few weeks is the backlash in some hard line republican house tea party districts against those tea party hard liners. for example, justin amosh from michigan is facing a challenge from a local grand a pirapids businessman. "the washington post" reported the same thing is happening in alabama, idaho, other states where in these supposedly super safe right-wing districts there are challenges. >> yeah. maggie, '94 people always tweet me, they e-mail, say please talk more about when you were in congress. i don't like to do it. but, when they say why do you talk about it, what am i

supposed to talk about. like when i won the green jacket in '87? no. there's so many parallels between what happened then and now. if we passed some new deal legislation i wouldn't talk about it. you have this saying boom '94, 2010. bust. '96. we were really cocky in '94, '95, '96 and shut down the government and a lot of my buddies got beaten. it's amazing how you made sure when you walk through the elevator you made sure there was an elevator the next time. there's going to be a correction and some people will be beat because of this and the party will resolve it themselves. >> i think that's right. the question is whether you'll see it at the statewide level. the chamber of commerce which is really, really looking now to play a role in this, there is push back from the establishment wing the business wing of the party that wants to stop have the story line being the tea

party guys are winning. i think you'll end up seeing more of this going forward. >> but, steve, you're going to see people like chris christie go to places to try to win support if he's going run for president that he can't get it because the base is so strong. >> think about the primaries he has to face in south carolina and florida is off the map. new hampshire he can play in. where else i'm not sure. >> that's why he was worried about last time. you saw ted cruz. >> i did. >> you told me something off camera a little bit that surprised me that he wasn't instant rock star. >> yeah. >> it wasn't the beatles at jfk. we keep hearing because i think people in manhattan and washington love writing this story. ted cruz goes out to the heartland and the hucksters love him and they are so simple why can't they be with us and write for "the new yorker." they didn't say that, steve. but when you go out there, we have the same thing with michele

bachmann. you talk to people in the room no there's kind of a distance between the speaker and the stage. >> even more so with him. it was interesting. he spoke for 45 minutes with no notes, a body mic. >> smart guy. >> he did it really well. that's an impressive skill. but there was not a ton of anticipation in the room beforehand. during his speech people were engaged for a while and then they were checking their backberries. ate fundraiser not a rally. sarah palin spoke at this same fundraising dinner. annual thing. there were 1,000 people there. ted cruz had 600. >> interesting. steve coll thank you so much. good to see you. willie what do we have ahead? >> a big auction coming up. michael jordan's house in chicago is going up for sale. they let us go inside for a tour. no cameras ever been inside michael's house. they let us go inside.

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in just a few minutes former vice president dick cheney will be here on the set with his new

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♪ a lot of folks have been talking about our new health care enrollment website how it's been crashing freenzing and shutting down and stalling and not working and breaking and sucking. if our website still isn't loading properly we're probably

just overloaded with traffic. millions of americans are visiting healthercare.gov which is great news. unfortunately the site was only designed to handle since users at a time. so, if you're in a rush, consider using our low res website with simpler fonts and graphics. >> welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsch is still with us. joining the table republican senator from oklahoma and ranking member of the homeland security and governmental affairs committee senator tom coburn on the set. good to have you here. >> where's the beard? you could have kept it on until the red sox won the series. >> like the clean shaven look. >> and in chicago, sit back and watch the show. former senior adviser for

president obama and msnbc contributor david axelrod with a little lou reed in the background. passing of lou reed over the weekend. let's get to the big stories of the morning. the affordable care act's main website healthercare.gov underwent a bit of an overhaul over the weekend. the site highlights the four ways you can enroll including the use of the navigator to make it easier for consumers to purchase health coverage. the website couldn't make nointd without experiencing another major issue. hhs officials said the site was down sunday because of an outage to one of its data centers. former president bill clinton defended the program and it's roll out while campaigning for terry mcauliffe in virginia. >> look at america today. we got to implement this health care law, the computer deal will get fixed up. don't worry about that. everybody has forgotten by the

way that when president george w. bush a republican put that medicare part d drug program in, it was more unpopular than the health care law and they had terrible problems with the computers. but our side year not so ideological so instead of bashing them and screaming how incompetent they were most of our people helped people under the law and make it work and then wait for it to get fixed. big difference in being an ideologue and being practical. putting people first as opposed to some abstract philosophy first. >> you know -- >> i think it was a good try. >> why people don't remember that because it wasn't true. >> that computer thing. >> like seniors wanted, you know -- >> i think it was a good try. >> it was a good try. you got to do what you got to do. your team is down 17-1. >> overall the computer issue can be fixed.

overall i think that's the point. >> think it will be a while. it goes to the basic disconnect and the incompetence of some in this administration that, you know, that reporter went out and they talked a lot to silicon valley people that said the way this thing was set up is a zero percent -- >> thousands of individuals in california are unhappy with the president's health care law because of increases to their health insurance bills. it has to do with the large amount of previously uninsured people now entering the health care system. >> so, tom, we were talking about this last hour. the bigger problem maybe in january, february, the computer is fixed, the website is fixed, what, i don't remember. but when people start getting notices that they are being dropped from insurance, their insurance which the "l.a. times" is reporting, and the new health care plan costs twice as much as their old health care plan that

they had, and they are not able to keep their health care plan they had which the president said they could, i think that probably causes a bigger problem. >> i think in the long term it causes a huge problem because what we wanted was a system that actually lowered costs and this is going raise them. what we did -- the idea of trying to fix the health care in this country is not a bad idea. computer problems will get fixed. it will be difficult. there weren't computer problems with medicare part d. all it was is we're going raise your benefit, nobody will pay taxes and we'll let private industry figure out how to do that and they did and it came in half the cost of what everybody estimated. this one is coming in at three or four times the cost. you won have the same choice. you won't have the same physicians. your access to care when you want it won't thereabout. when that all works through the system and oh, by the way when young people don't sign up because it's not in their best financial i want to be do it and if they get sick they get covered anyway, it won't work.

what we've done is lost the very vision of what this country was founded on, how you allocate a scarce resource. you allocate scarce resource through competitive markets not through government mandated programs. and when you do that they cost twice as much. they are inefficient and most often ineffective. >> david axelrod i'm sure you saw the "l.a. times" article yesterday. i would like to you speak a little bit to that. also what do you say to democratic senators jean shaheen and joe manchin that the individual mandate should be delayed a year because the site is having so many problems. is that a possibility? >> well, look, i think if the site can't be fixed in a reasonable period of time then you're going to have to look at some sort of delay and everybody has acknowledged that including the white house, whether you sign on to a year now or not i think is a very, very big question and i don't think that's something that one should commit to. at this point let's see how this works out. in terms of your larger

question, though, about the insurance it's true that some people have been told that their policies were cancelled because the health care law sets a floor for coverage and, joe, i have a very personal view on this. you guys know very well my own experience. i have a child who when she was 7-month-old started having seizures. afc young newspaper reporter then. i got the cheapest policy i could get. i thought that was fine until someone got sick. what happened was that her prescriptions cost $1,000 a month. i was making very little money. her other -- there were other treatments that weren't covered and we almost went broke. and we couldn't switch to another policy because she had a pre-existing -- now she had a pre-existing condition. this law fixes that. so yes we have standards now. you get prescription coverage. you get preventative care. that's positive. and the fact is, you know, while we are talking about this, let's

recognize the fact that there's this phenomenon that during this whole debate about the website, the health care law has become more popular. look at the nbc news poll, your own poll and health care law is polling more positively now than it ever has before. why? because people recognize that they are going to be able to get health coverage at an affordable cost and i think that's -- >> could it be actually the republicans blew themselves up. >> i think what the pre-existing conditions and tissues that david brings up. >> that was already in the wash and it was like 32, 33, 34% until this shutdown. >> joe, i think there's more information now about what the health care act does. so i think that that is actually boosted the popularity of the program. i wish that everybody would rather than concentrating on trying to see how we can run this thing down, let's talk

about how we can make it work. and if there are problems with it let's fix it along the way. i think that's how most americans feel about this program. >> david, along those lines, senator, i want to throw a theory out there. if i was talking to a republican, i would say guys you keep banging, banging, banging this. you're is going to hurt yourself. move on. next. this is a tvd. we have to wait 18, 24 months to see what this thing looks like. i think there's a booby trap for republicans to continue to be the party of no to something that's officially a yes. that's how i would advise republicans. >> you make a good point. what the country knows is what we're against not what we're for. we ought to be voicing what we're for. but, i would just contrast, can you imagine a system where you didn't spend $700 million to set up a computer program to do this and you spent $200 and it worked. that's the incompetency of

bureaucracies. and so when we're $17 trillion in debt, almost $130 trillion in unfund liabilities and oh, by the way medicare and social security are bankrupt, you know, that's what the real numbers say and we're starting another program, what we taught talk about is how does that impact freedom and liberty in the future and where can we fix what's wrong today? look, they will fix the website. but it's not baseball. you know, you build it they will come. they are not. because there's not in the economic interest of a young healthy person to go on this and spend this money because as soon as they get sick they get covered anyway. so it doesn't matter if you eliminate the mandate. you can eliminate the mandate. they still won't come. what should happen is if you really want to roll this out you need to delay it a year so that you can actually -- if you really believe, if the progressives believe the government ought to be running this much of the economy, then

at least wait a year on the whole thing and fix it to where it's somewhat effective. >> i want plays in to the argument for sure what's happening with the roll out, willie that big government doesn't work well, bureaucracies get things to be clunky. still what it takes to fix this website will not cost as much as the shutdown and all the tactics that were used to try to ward off this law and don't you think what would be better is if everyone would work together to make it better, to and make the law better or get rid of it? go through the process of getting rid of it if it's that bad. >> yes. david said something earlier which echoed what the president said over the weekend there's a lot of people namely republicans who are rooting for the failure. so in your critique of it senator coburn, would you want to see this law, the affordable care act carried out better or get rid of it and replace it and if so how would you bring costs down if not this way. >> well, first of all, remember

the reason costs aren't driven down in the system we had before is you don't have a consumer making a real choice. with real transparency in terms ever price and quality. myself and richard burr had the patient choice act which we never could get a vote on. which we had exchanges. we covered pre-existing illnesses. >> go through it. explain why you couldn't get a vote. >> because they didn't want to vote on it because they were afraid we would get more votes. >> i don't understand. i heard some democrats complaining that republicans didn't have an alternative. >> because they didn't want to show an alternative. >> you're saying you had an alternative but harry reid -- >> we were never allowed a vote on it. >> are you sure? >> am i sure? >> i'm shocked. why would harry reid criticize republicans for not having an alternative but not allow a vote on the floor. >> there's a lot of different ideas out there.

the fact is if you want to fix health care in our gun you have to reconnect payment with purchase and you have to -- the insurance company is the middle man. they need to be out of the decision-making. it needs to be back between provider and purchaser, and transparency has to thereabout. there's a hospital in oklahoma city, really interesting. they advertise -- this is a surgical hospital. advertise all their prices online. what their outcomes are. people come from all over the country because they are about half the price. markets. these people don't have insurance so they are paying for it. they are buying it at half the price. >> david? sounded like you wanted to respond. >> i did. >> do you still want to respond? >> there's a lot to respond to. let me roll back to the beginning. i have a lot of respect for senator coburn, but first of all, this notion that the website crashed because the government was running it belies the fact that there have been

website disasters in private industry as well. so let's -- >> david, none of them spent $800 million building a website. >> let's push that aside. you talk about transparency. this is the first time in history that you can make an apples to apples comparison about health care plans, you know, online in front of you. >> except with your old plan because you're no longer eligible to buy your old plan which was the number one promise the president made to the american people. you cannot get what you have. >> most people will keep their old plan, senator, and you know that. there were some plans -- the head of blue cross in florida was on television yesterday said there's a small number of people in his state who are going to be transferred plans that have a higher quality and most of them will be subsidized and end up paying less for those plans.

>> the majority of people in this country, the vast majority of people in this country are keeping their plan. people who are uninsured will have choice they never had before. as for government, and there are private carriers. their insurance won't welcome back the government. their insurance is going to be with private carriers. let's be straight about that. now in terms of the government getting involved in health care, you know, nobody is suggesting that we should disband medicare although we heard many of the same complaints about medicare back in the day when medicare was being implemented. >> medicare is bankrupt, 20% of everything that's spent in medicare is defrauded from the government. it's over $80 billion a year is defraud. how is that running for us? i'm not against medicare but how about have it run in a way -- private insurance -- private insurance fraud rate is less

than 2%. we're ten times greater becauser with don't know how to do it. we don't function effectively when the government does it. so there's nothing wrong with the program. let's do it a different way and what you're seeing roll out with the affordable care act is same incompetencies we see in large bureaucratic institutions. not that the ideas are bad in the affordable care act. we're incompetent to roll it out and we've proven that today. >> in last several years we've seen the costs of health care, the growth of health care costs level off after a whole decade of almost double digit increases and everyone including the congressional budget office has suggested that the affordable care act has had something to do with that. >> okay. >> all right. so that's kind of an -- >> that's not an accurate representation. as a matter of fact, most of the business analysis and economic analysis of why it's down is because the economy is flat on its back. >> no -- >> that is true.

that is true. that's why health care insurance hasn't risen. it continues. >> we're continuing it 1.2%. >> a third of it was ascribed to the affordable care act because there are practices that have been promoted through the affordable care act, reduction in promotion of health care i.t., reduction in infection rates in hospital, reduction in re-admissions in hospitals, the promotion of accountable care organizations that charge not a fee for service but for keeping people healthy. all of those things are beginning to have an impact so my suggestion is let's make this work, let's give people who don't have thaerlt opportunity to haste. let's give people -- >> i'm all for that. if you would -- go read about patient's choice act. senator burr, myself and 20 other resenators. every aspect you're seeing that's positive in the affordable care act was in that bill except ours don't cost $2.6

trillion or run by the government. ours is run by the private-sector with transparency and man dates that you have to be transparent. you can see what you're getting and paying for. we let people keep what they like rather than making a promise, here's what you can have and then making sure you can't have that and that's true across every state in this country. >> all right. a great conversation which we will continue. david axelrod, thank you very much. senator tom coburn, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> these guys need a show. >> that's why he shaved the beard because -- >> i'm starting it back, joe. it's winter. >> by the time the series is over. >> see traces of a goatee. >> oh, lord. up next. we were doing so well. former vice president dick cheney is standing by. we'll discuss today's top political stories with him plus

his new book on his long struggle with heart disease. >> oh, lord we have nancy snyderman with dick cheney? she's a socialist. >> that's okay. >> we'll be right back. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day.

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23 past the hour. here with us now, former vice president dick cheney. he's the co-author of a new book "heart," an american medical odyssey. the story of a patient, doctor and 35 years of medical innovation. also at the table nbc news chief medical editor dr. nancy snyderman. >> 35 years, so much stuff has happened in 35 years as related to the heart. i started with doctors shoving lipitor. the cholesterol dropped 100

points immediately. talk about your battle for 35 years before all these advancements. >> when i had my heart attack in 1978 most of the thing that saved my life didn't exist, hadn't been invented yet. crucial breakthroughs like cholesterol lowering drugs, and implantable defibrillator. in the book we try to tell my case about talking about all those innovations. i had an invitation at cleveland clinic, we're having a big conference on technology and innovation, we decided we need a patient. >> poster child. >> good one. they said you've had virtually everything, would you be our patient. so they sent the plane down and

i spent an afternoon my doctor and i with that group at the cleveland clinic talking about my case by way of demonstrating what had happened and how it all worked. >> by the way, he looks so much better. you have color. nancy, these innovations that we're looking at, i know from my own personal experience it's not like they just keep people on life support, you go on with your life. >> that's the whole point. so there's longevity of life and quality of life. the vice president came to a point where both were threatened. the interesting thing s-and i'm not touting any one company but medtronic has been an innovator and i made jokes at the vice president's expense that, you know, medtronic if you want to see a company worth investing

in -- i don't have any interest. >> sounds like you do. >> i've been in the halls of their building and seen their innovations and i know how extraordinary they have led. the vice president is the recipient of a lot of their brain power. >> one of their devices saved my life. >> which one? >> implantable defibrillator. it read my heart rate at 222 beats a minute, gave me a shot. 16 seconds from the time when i went out until i went back. >> that's wireless technology knowing he was in trouble and taking care of it through central data. so that is sort of an extraordinary exchange of information where the patient allows that information to be transported to somewhere else. someone says patient is in trouble and boom literally got his chest pumped. >> if tim russert had the same device he would be with us

today. >> when did this. >> up >> about '09. about a year after we left the white house. i fwakd car out of the garage. i blacked out. car went up on top of the rock. i came back 16, 17 minutes later and all i had was a pump on my head. >> any fears. any national security fears. any fears and what precautions did you guys take? >> when we put it in originally in '01 and then got a newer model in '07. put it in. that newer model was capable to be programmed wirelessly. we removed that feature out of concern if i was working a rope line some place or in a crowd that somebody corks in fact, damper with that device and cause a heart attack. so we disabled that feature. then some years later on homeland they actually had an episode where somebody did exactly that, killed the vice president who had an implantable

defibrillator. >> what do you think about that scene? >> yeah. lots of luck. >> watching that scene was so far fetched and then you hear the vice president say it was something they were actually concerned about. you write in the book about a point in 2010 when frankly you were ready to go. you were so close to death that you talked to your family members. you talked about your wishes to be cremated. take me inside, if you would, that moment of having to sit down with your family and say i believe i reached the end. >> in that 17 month period after i left the white house it was steady downhill progression and culminated in 2010. my heart was no longer moving enough blood to service my kid nice and my organs. i had days left to live. we ran out of technology and so forth. i expressed my wishes to the family. as i write in the book, death

was imminent. but it was not frightening. i was at peace. i had been anticipating for a long time. sooner or later technology would run out. and that i would face that situation and die of heart disease. and this was the moment. then they came up with the left ventricular device. we did that. a nine hour operation. >> that's when we saw you publicly and you were so thin. >> i lost 40 pounds. i was in the operating room nine hours 20 units of blood. caught pneumonia while in the recovery process on a respi r tr

then 35 weeks of rehab. >> we have a portion of your interview with "60 minutes" showing the before and after images of your heart and just warning, it could be difficult for some to see but it's really important in terms of what we're learning about patients like you. take a look. >> this is an image of cheney's ravaged and diseased heart just moments after it was removed. >> is that rather large basin and here is your heart. >> what i lived with for several years. >> normal heart is basically a little bit smaller. you see this is half a foot wide. >> old heart, new heart. >> old heart, new heart. it's one of those situations where bigger is not necessarily better. >> it's amazing. nancy? >> i have a question for the vice president. you talk about your daddy, that day you looked in the mirror and saw yourself, you met him.

you talk about the kid with regards to the genetics. >> we watch very carefully. they keep track of cholesterol levels. nobody has ever had bad habits of smoking which i did for 20 years. you become very conscious and aware of it inside the family. nobody else has had a problem up to this point. of course our daughters are in their 40s and we have seven grandchildren so that's something you need to watch but we get better and better at it all the time. one of the miracle things that happened to me was cholesterol lowering drugs. when i did my quadruple bypass the bypass was important but cholesterol lowering drugs came in at the same time and that was even more important. >> it's so interesting for genetic profiling and doing the genetics of you because you and mrs. cheney are alive and you have children and grandchildren and there may be markers you could turn on and off with

behaviors. >> there's another remarkable scene on september 11th, 2001, of all days, you get the fuse that you are at very serious risk of a heart attack. when did you hear that news and how did you handle it in that moment? >> i actually didn't know about it until afterward and it was a false alarm. they had done blood work that morning which i did periodically anyway and that was before the attack. then attack totally disrupted the process by which they would send that blood sample out to bethesda and evaluate it. what came back is a reading of my potassium level was very high and could cause a heart attack. turned out it was a false reading. i didn't know about it. that evening there's a picture on the back of that first book i wrote of the doctor handing me a document that shows they need another blood sample and i said no we'll do that in the morning. it turned out it wasn't a problem. but the docs were a little worried.

>> i'm a little dizzy here, guys. we sit here and complain we don't have time, dick. i'm trying to hold the world together. >> we want to ask you about the republican party but i'm just curious and i watched the "60 minutes" interview and all sorts of questions about your ability to make decisions and this and that and were you all there. i would like to -- >> were you? were you incensed by those questions? >> wasn't surprised by it snimd like to take a different angle and ask you how the experience of being near death so many times or living with the possibility of death and depending on innovation to get you through the next day, week, month, year, how that did impact your decisions, your outlook, your values when it came to facing times of war and life and death crises for our country. >> there was a key moment when i had my first heart attack, in

the middle of my first campaign for congress three months before the primary, 37 years old in a asked my doctor, great guy, named rick davis. do i have to give up my campaign. he said hell, dick hard work never killed anybody. that was his response. admittedly i heard what i wanted to hear. he also said what will cause you is stress spending your life doing something you don't want to do. every time i went through one of these incident its dealt with it and then i went back to work. first heart attack, quit smoking. you know, so watch your diet. it's time to get a cholesterol lowering drug you take it. always tried to separate out the job from my health, never used the job to avoid in dealing with a problem. my doc said i had something to

do but never used the job to keep -- i kept it separate. i didn't go through life wringing my hands saying gee when will i have the next heart attack. i had incidents. i dealt with them. you can live with chronic heart disease. that's part of what this book is about. technology has gotten so good that there's no reason why, depending upon your condition, obviously, why you can't go on with a normal life and die. >> so we have peter baker here last week he wrote a book that make a lot of bush/cheney staffers twitch. nicole said she had post traumatic stress. he i heard the same thing. i asked him -- the friend of the brzezinskis and you, i don't know. he had a heart attack and that changed him. i always thought that was

nonsense, a lot of people don't. peter baker i asked him. no. all of the research and all the conclusion he came to the same conclusion. but why does your answer to those who still say well he had a heart attack and it changed him and the dick cheney that we loved and adored on september 10th, 2001, became a monster on darth vader on september 12th, 2001. >> that had a lot more to do with september 11th than my medical history. after i had my third heart attack and quadruple coronary surgery, dr. ross who was head of cardiology with my doctor wrote a letter to the senate armed services committee as part of my confirmation as secretary of defense and it's a very good letter. it's in the book. basically says there's no reason in the world why he's not capable of performing at the highest level. nothing he's taking by way of medications or anything else

that should interfere with his capacity to do the job. what happened was 9/11. i was in the bunker on 9/11 when they blew up the world trade center and the pentagon. would have hit the white house or capitol build field goal it weren't for the people on flight 93. we were at war. and i was having to make designa designa decisions and work with the president and everybody. >> did it narrow your focus. mika was asking how being close to death and knowing -- did it narrow your focus? weren't you worried what people were saying about you >> what was symbolically about what happened before, what had a big impact that morning was back in the '80s i had been part of a program that was then classified, part of it is still is that focused on what do we do if we have an all out global nuclear war with the soviet union. we get hit by multiple war

heads. this program was maintaining the continuity of the government. how do we protect the government process here in the united states when washington is a target and lord knows who is going to get hit. we did exercises on that on a regular basis. 9/11 was bad, and was a terrible tragedy, but we had practiced, i had actually trained on circumstances far worse. and that training sort of kicked in that morning and one of the main things we had to do is make sure the line of succession was protected. i got danny hastert to a remote location because he was next in line. >> did your wife ever say dick enough. enough. you've served. come home. we're worried about you. enough. identify moderated -- >> i don't think she ever said enough. >> enough to other people. i don't know if she ever said to it him. >> there was a moment when i

came home from the office up with day down in texas when i was running halliburton, george bush just asked me to be his running mate and i said to lynn and the girls honey sell the house, i quit my job and we're going back into politics. there was a pause. i tell a story that she and daughter mary were not enthusiastic. lynn was out in the yard painting yard signs. >> i totally believe you. >> the book is "heart." a medical american odyssey. thank you. the most important and vital thing you said here, the message of the book you can live with heart disease. >> there's hope. we get better all the time. >> the disease is chronic not a death sentence. >> dr. nancy snyderman thank you as well. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." thank you. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive"

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up next the editor of the new republic frank foer and kasie hunt. ted cruz may be taking a shot at

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there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. >> i'm convinced we're facing a new paradigm in politics. it's a paradigm that's the rise of the grassroots. i got to tell you, it has official washington absolutely terrified. [ applause ] this new paradigm has been beta tested. unlike the obama care website. [ laughter ] it was beta tested in 1980 with the reagan revolution. and we pulled this country back from the brink. that was senator ted cruz rallying republicans at iowa's reagan dinner on friday and here with us now, nbc news

correspondent kasie hunt who was with the senator in iowa over the weekend. also with us the editor of the new republic, frank foer. good to have you. the magazine's new issue looks at why we're stuck with dysfunction in washington. the cover story reads like this tea party's failure to wring concessions from the obama administration and the palpable damage it inflicted on the republican party may even presage the end of this political bloc. by 2016 the tea party may have gone way of the religious right of the 1990s. and yet the question remains whether the tea party's demise will produce a kinder, intelligenter, more cooperative america or whether its constituents will regroup. >> the tea party looks a lot like the people in '93 and '94

of perot. whether you call it the tea party or reagan democrats, there's always going to be a strain of conservative populism, no matter what. by the way there's people elected me so i got no problem with conservative populists. people go tea party, tea party, like it was just invent ad couple of years ago. >> you're right. >> since reagan. >> there's this floating event monday of economic populism on the right and takes different forms over time. >> what form is this >> what it took this time there was this alignment between the tea party groups at the grassroots level and washington groups who vetted them and the disaster that unfolded so the heritage action group and the freedom works. so there was this alignment. part of what also -- it was well

funded at this stage. so that made it a particularly dangerous iteration. >> so, kasie, you're in iowa and we talked about divisions in the republicannationally. we talked about the mess that right now is the warks republican party. they are having a battle. >> they are struggling and ted cruz walked into the middle of that. a lot of people have taken over and really gotten both tea party folks in iowa and the establishment folks concerned that the party is not going to be where it needs to be. >> the divisions are serious. >> the governor is embattled with -- there is an establishment versus not just tea party, but versus what the rand and east. >> the iowa republicans labeled themmed the paul steinians.

>> this is an ongoing battle. you also, very interesting, you saw ted cruz's speech and your view is the same. polite applause. gave a great speech. no notes. >> he has a variety of situations over the course of the weekend. he gave this 45-minute speech. no notes and no teleprompter. he did something with king for presidential candidates. i did it with rick perry and it's interesting to watch him negotiate the kinds of situations he would fake were he to decide to be a candidate. he is comfortable and didn't try to overexaggerate, but did joke with dick chen whoa was just here and his friend. accidents like that happen. he did get two pheasants.

he is not that shot. he's pretty uncomfortable with small talk. he's a serious guy. the couple of times he was chatting on this trip, he was talking about clerking previously for the supreme court. >> no, no, no! you talk about iowa football! >> he's the studious pop lift ever. >> he is. he was a very, very serious guy. they will focus. he's not like me. he's not going to be talking baseball and football. >> you contrasted sarah palin. forget her politics and lack of command on the issues. she was engaging. cruz doesn't have the issue about it as a persona. he doesn't have charisma.

>> right. he did not generate the response that palin has shown she is capable of doing even in off years. >> still a conservative rock star. >> everyone was excited, but most of the voters said i came to this because i don't know him and i want to learn about him. that's a different space than the national media or tea party. >> rand paul has big support. >> and he has deep organization. not cruz people yet. >> what was the other one? >> paul stinians. >> i made that up accidentally. they are amazingly organized. they are. basically they are saying this crisis is not going to do it for sometime, but it's the tea party or whether it's -- >> with the macro economic situation, the tea party could disappear and the republicans

could get their act together and swing more to the type of republican party they knew would like to see, but overtime as it exists now produces breeding grounds for the populism. it's going to die and take another potentially destructive form in a couple of years. it seems like we are stuck in this cycle of anger and stagnation and dysfunction. >> thank you. good cover. it does it all. still ahead, the editor and chief of the economy. we'll be right back. ♪ [ jen garner ] what skincare brand is so effective... so trusted... so clinically proven dermatologists recommend it twice as much as any other brand? neutrogena®. recommended by dermatologists 2 times more

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>> they take him off. this game is over. >> upset, man. the cardinals. that cannot happen. that's not good. >> i know you told me this last night. >> i did. >> i was watching that and she said i believe that is the first time in the history of 119 years of postseason baseball that a game ended like that. >> mika got her start at the alliance sports bureau. >> did she call you the night before? >> the construction call. >> i'm kind of a savant that

way. what a weekend though. the first saturday. obstruction like the republicans. >> someone tweeted inside the park. home run off of a bunt. >> it's a great series. >> crazy. >> in the background, velvet underground. >> that's our top story. >> lou reed. >> good morning. it's october 28th. we have the chairman of deutsch incorporated. >> started by a young university of pennsylvania gentlemen. >> they are totally for looks only. they have absolutely no use except that you decided you wanted to do the glasses today. >> you need glasses. you are blind as a bat.

vanity glasses. senior for politico, yea, maggie! associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius joins us. good to have you on board so early. hello, willie. we will start with that. the music you were listening to, he once said i have a ba in dope and a ph.d. in soul. lou reed, lead singer of the band velvet underground has died. the word icon gets thrown around, but there is little other way to describe him. he influenced musicians from david bowie to talking heads and rem and wheezer and beyond. he was famously backed by andy warhol with the iconic banana on the cover of their first album. by industry standards it was a flop, selling only 30,000 copies. one producer characterized the

influence by saying everyone who bought one of the 30,000 copies started a band. it was reed's solo career that spawned perhaps the most famous single, walk on the wild side. his music could be complicated and confounding. he was open about his experiences with drugs and sex and claimed his inspirations came from a primal place that included his hometown of new york. >> i'm just a rock 'n' roll guy and i like to turn the guitar up and make noise. that's how i deal with stress. >> it just comes to you. wrying in a cabin, you think of i great theme. >> ideas are knocking on my door almost 24 hours a day. i'm an insom ni action so there is no end. you are walking around at 5:00 in the morning and there is no end to things that happen that should be in a song or novel. >> he is believed to have died

due to complications of a liver transplant. he was 71 years old. >> the guy is the king of the new york music scene. always. when it came to song writing, one cord was good. two cords were okay, but you have to get three cords, you start to push it. it's almost jazz. he believed in rock 'n' roll. >> mika read the lists and the people who were inspired by him, we talked about david bowie, but rem and the strokes and bands like that and the whole punk movement before sex pistols was lou reed. i don't know people of a certain age realize how far it goes back and you can trace it back to lou reed. >> sometimes rock 'n' roll's tentacles expand and there was an iconic commercial with his

famous owner where they used popular music. it's so interesting where you see an icon like this guy really touches. very interesting. >> the rockers who influenced beyond him, he inspired so many covers and his music has been played in so many different ways and his sound interpreted in so many different ways. it will be a long time before you see someone like him. people talk about music coming from a dark place. he never looks happy. his music was incredible. let's move on to other big stories we have this morning. this one is for david ignatius for sure. new reporting confirms what edward snowden leaked last week that the scope extends to some of america's closest allies abroad. the "wall street journal" reports that the national security agency ended a program that spied on as many as 35 world leaders after the white

house ordered a review over the summer. officials say several programs have been shut down and others are expected to be close to the later date. the report states president obama spent nearly five years in office in the dark. unaware of the nsa's practices overseas. the targets of the programs are not decided by the president, but by the agency. yesterday congressman peter king defended the program saying they should be viewed as a positive thing for everyone involved. >> i think the president should stop apologizing and being defensive. the nsa saved thousands of lives not just in the united states, but in france and germany and throughout europe. we are not doing this for the fun of it, but to gather intelligence that helps not just us. >> there reports out of germany that the president did know that angela merkel's cell phone is being capped. >> talk about a confounding

story in terms of not understanding the concept as to why we would do this. why it would go unknown by the president if it was. david ignatius, can you put this in perspective and snowden's role, is he such a menace or revealing things we need to know? >> first about nsa collection, it seems clear that if nsa could collect a signal, they would and add to the pile of data. analysts couldn't have possibly gone through and made sense of the signals they had access to. in terms of spying on the world leaders and the 35 world leaders which is the latest thing that riled the europeans and people all over the world. if you captured something of interest from angela merkel's cell phone that that reference wouldn't end up in the president's daily brief.

it may not say obtained through surveillance of cell phones, but intelligence would be there. otherwise why would you have it. the snowden revelations keep rolling at the world and at the obama administration. i'm surprised there has not been more push back. it triggered a response by major nations. france, germ knowy and britain which has been our partner in a lot of surveillances saying it will work can europeans. we will come out with new rules that the nsa will have to live with. they will be more limited and the question will have to sort out that does that put the country at greater risk of the attack and does it take away any weapons important in defending the united states and allies as we go to greater protections of civil liberties. >> does anyone believe they would tap the phone of one of america's important allies.

the cell phone of a world leader like angela merkel? does anybody believe the president would be kept in the dark? >> i believe there is such mass as david was saying. >> no, no. it's one thing if you -- >> i do not think the president was tapping. >> you don't think the president knew that angela merkel's cell phone -- >> i don't believe it. >> which is worse? >> that's terrible, yeah. >> if the president doesn't know this is happening, that's embarrassing and concerning. >> the irs doesn't know about the website. >> and if he does, the question is what damage i would love to hear everyone's point of view, does this do to the relationship? no matter what we do to fix it at this point, the damage is done. >> let me ask another question. what would we think if we found

out that angela merkel had been tapping barack obama's phone? are these other world leaders. this is outrageous. >> that's why it is such a big story in europe. you don't see it a lot here. it's a lead story in the journal. a huge story in europe on the front page of every paper you find. what is the long-term impact. angela merkel said we have work to do to repair the damage from this. does this affect our relationship with germany and beyond in. >> it's certainly a political issue between the u.s. and german governments. the larger thing that people should be aware of is that in reaction to these revelations, european companies are saying to european customers. you can't trust your data with the united states. go to this cloud service provider.

don't go to amazon or another american company. i have seen an estimate that 25 to $35 billion worth of business in the cloud computing area alone could be lost. countries will begin to enact their own data laws that we think of unbroken around the world i fear will be segmented as countries try to have their own rules and limits and protections. that's a different world. >> 5 or years ago when he was running f he just gets in there, our reputation around the world will be so much better. everyone hates george w. bush and this is all we need for a brand-new -- little did they know when he was giving that speech in berlin, his people were bugging all the offices. think about the damage this has done and this is one more of the bush-cheney programs that this administration has taken the

ridiculous lengths. >> the real world implications has been massive. the damage has been done for ways that are not just political. economic and is this harmful to the u.s. this is something -- what is worse? that he knew or didn't know this? the idea that he didn't know, i imagine people think it's a better explanation domestically than saying he did know. it's hard for me to say this is a positive. if it is true, that's alarming and given that they are arguing this wholesale review, we have not heard a revamp from the president. he made his speech and press conference and he needs to explain what exactly is happening now. the revelations keep coming and more will continue. >> all right. one more story before we go to break. the affordable care act's main website underwent a bit of an overhaul.

>> that's good, right. i should have gone on it yesterday. instead of watching football, if they had an overhaul, i get it was great. >> they had a special. buy one get one free. >> okay, boys. >> oh, wait. it shut down yesterday. it was completely -- >> including the use of a navigator to make it easier to purchase health coverage. >> you have done a lot of successful launches. you would back away. >> so help me out here. this goes one or two ways. this either causes serious

problems and has aylingering effect that terrible launches have that impact on certain products or it's the sort of thing that we are looking back and going huh? what? how does this go? >> let's separate the success of a concept of this new law versus the technological execution. the average american can distinguish between the two. we're asking for a change in the way americans behave a year from now. there were a lot of kinks in this and they will fix it. it will take a year. >> how do you know they will. >> listen to bill clinton. you love him. >> it is fixable. this is massive and i think the republicans's trap door if they spend the next six or nine months focusing on a technology and execution issue versus refocusing the brand of their party. >> personally i think the next sound byte is a stretch.

i tried it and it rang hollow. when the former president does it, it works, but you can tell he actually has to really try to talk around it. he doesn't have that thing. president clinton defended the program while campaigning for mcauliffe. >> look at america today. we have to implement this health care law. the computer deal will get fixed up. don't worry about that. everybody has forgotten when president gorge w. bush, a republican, put that medicare part d program in it was more unpopular and they had terrible problems with the computers. our side, we are not so ideological. instead of bashing them and screaming about how incompetent they were, most of our people tried to understand the law and make it work. wait for it to get fixed.

big difference in being an idea log and being practical. putting people first as opposed to an abstract philosophy first. >> that would be good if it were true. medicare part d like president bush, he missed off all conservative because giving away prescription drugs was not unpopular. >> he does a good job. . >> the president should say i think this is a nine to 12 month process so every day he is not answering questions. >> i agree, but the medicare part d argument and that is just grasping. this is a bad roll out. it can be fixed. a website can be fixed. to the effects of shutting down the government and doing the

anti-obama care did is far more dangerous and long lasting in terms of implications. that's the bottom line. >> that will be. >> thank you for wasting all that money. >> we have problems with the roll out. a little bit of problems. a bigger problem, l.a. times said yesterday that there a lot of californians that are finally dropped from the experience and then they are going out and trying to get new health insurance and they are finding out it is costing a lot more for little class people and a lot of middle class people. they get drop and they go out and can't find a policy that is not twice as much. >> this is a much bigger problem and to donny's point about the focus on the website, the website will get fixed. it will take time. we now have our people don't focus on that. we are looking at technical

glitches. it will get done. there is a question of how many people get signed up by march. this is when the deadline is. >> no mansion is gone for a year and gene in new hampshire, not exactly a right winger. >> it tells you that this will be an ongoing issue for elections next year and they are concerned about the success of the program depends on how many not in ill health enroll. they are talking about sticker shock and getting people to be part of the program. they should be happy people are focusing on the website. >> david ignatius, the sticker shock story that l.a. times was talking about, if that plays out over 50 states and we don't know. the markets may adjust six months from now. that is the bigger challenge than a website launch. >> people feel they are out of pocket for the new reform, they

will be unhappy and angry. whether the benefits that ordinary folks feel in terms of having protection and being able to change jobs without worrying and whether they outweigh the problems, we will have to see. they worry sometimes that the country was not ready politically or technologically for the breath of what the administration tried to do. >> coming up, we will check in with politico's mike allen and a carnival worker faces charges for allegedly tampering with a ride that injured five people. what investigators are saying today. governor chris christie picks up an endorsement from one of the biggest names in basketball. which future hall of famer is getting involved in new jersey politics. first bill has a check on the forecast. >> good morning, everyone. this huge storm in the west will

cause problems across the country. a lot of people are going to get soaked on halloween. it's in northern nevada and will bring dangerous weather to the desert southwest in the form of gusty strong winds and we had snow in areas like lake tahoe and more snow ahead of the storm from montana to south dakota. the mountains in utah and even yellowstone. a lot of locations about four to eight inches. these are high wind warnings in much of southern nevada and southern california. the whole storm, we will head to the middle of the count r50e. by halloween, it looks like a soaker from the great lakes to areas like louisiana. the good news for the world series for the one game tonight in st. louis, the weather looks nearly perfect. a big game five. should be fun. you are watching "morning joe." (vo) you are a business pro.

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>> it's time to take a look at the morning papers from the parade of papers. a carnival ride operator is under arrest accused of tampering with a ride called the vortex. after five people were hurt last week in north carolina. the operator faces assault with a deadly weapon and the injuries happened when the vortex restarted as passengers were getting off the ride, being kboing five people unconscious. three of them reportedly still in the hospital. >> oklahoma, authorities are

searching for four inmates after they escaped through the trap door above a shower on saturday night. the four men climbed through the opening of one of the shower heads and the county sheriff realized something was wrong for the first time when his department got reports of men running through the streets in orange. >> that's a bad sign. >> they are on charges such a burglary, drugs and probation violations. >> violence continues with death tolls reaching the highest levels since 2008. nine car bombs killed dozens in baghdad. this brings a number of those killed to 5300 this year. the prime minister will head to the u.s. this week and is expected to ask for help from the u.s. to fight al qaeda. >> the new yorkdalea news, macy's is defending itself against racial profiling.

it is dubbed shop and frisk. some say they are wrongly accused of shoplifting because of their race. the latest involves rob brown who said he was racially profiled and accused of using a fake credit card while purchasing an expensive watch at the flagship store in manhattan. he was detained for an hour at macy's. the company released a statement claiming the store personnel were not involved. >> star governor chris christie is getting a boost from shaquille o'neal. o'neal appears in a 30-second commercial explaining support for the governor. he mentions kristi's support for education and refers to him as a great man. the election is set for november 5th. >> department see that coming. children are turning to devices more often than ever. 30% of age under 2 have started using the devices earlier than

previously thought. they found 7% of children now have a tablet device of their own. >> i was in the apple store this weekend and i was there for eight hours. it was not fun. but they had this table with ball chairs around it and there were 2-year-olds. and there were four tables like that and parents just hanging around letting their kids be obsessed with the ipads and going like this. they were little, little kids and they were wizes on the ipad. it was amazing to watch. since i was waiting for hours, i got to watch that for hours. >> that's fantastic. we may want to hire willie. >> that are genius. >> george geist. >> he is brilliant with the touch screen. >> maybe we can put him in charge of the obama website. >> the young master guys.

>> george has a black tuxedo he wears to school some days. that's a story for another day. let's go to mr. mike allen, the chief white house correspondent for politico and has a look at the playbook. good morning. let's talk about dick cheney and his daughter, liz and challenging 10 sor in wyoming. he set the record straight yesterday talking about who his friends are and fund-raising. >> mike also said he and i are fishing buddies which is not true. never happened. they are not going to elect the senator. the people will elect that senator. if you review his finances of getting about 84% of the campaign funds from washington based pacts. that's more than either party who doesn't get much money from wyoming. liz got 25% of the funds from

wyoming. he got 13%. >> he is not my fishing buddy. does liz cheney close any ground here? >> she sure is. they say it's a small state, unpredictable electorate. she could win and will have more money. very surprising here. this is by far the toughest he has been in anything he said publicly during this race. when he denied being senator, the campaign concedes that point when he said they were fishing buddies when he actually meant they chatted about fishing and term that they both appeared at the campaign. we thought that the vice president and senator shared a love of wyoming fishing. what we are seeing is that the family is getting involved on liz's side and that will help with fund-raising and will help her among the senator in

washington. >> that's going on in this race as you watch dick cheney come out for his daughter and has the campaign talking influence about where the money is am can be from. how is this going to shake out? >> he is still the favorite. it's hard to see it any other way. you are seeing the former vice president ratchet up criticism and you continue to see that. liz cheney has not been running a terrific race and enzy despite the fact that he has not run is running smarter. she is perceived as not being from wyoming. that is something she had to contend with and not erased a lot of concerns so far. >> that's what dick cheney is fighting about where the money is coming from. >> and also the idea that we are not pals and i didn't do anything to hurt you. that's part of enzi's line. >> the house that michael jordan built. going up for auction in chicago.

i got a look inside. he has a beauty salon in his home. if you are in the market for a new place. >> you see a nice dunk. nice tease. >> compared to donny's? >> doesn't touch it. we will talk to editor in chief, the new cover story and how red tape and taxes force corporate america into the shadows. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we talked about the deutsch dynasty. that's the bar. deutsch. >> and the pearls. >> incredible place. dare i say it's jordanesque. michael jordan's mansion outside chicago will be auctioned. concierge auction. they had it listed for $21 million and they are going the auction route to see if they can get more. are you in? what's the opening bid? >> i start at 22.5. >> the auction is on november 22nd. they let us inside. no tv camera has been inside his

home. >> ever? >> something tells me i'm in the right place. >> i've got the golden ticket. >> this is the houfs jordan. . >> the first ever tv tour of michael jordan's mega mansion. the kichk basketball knows how to live like one. >> how big is the house? >> 56,000 feet. >> the highest bidder gets it all. nine bedrooms, a beauty salon, gourmet kitchen and every room fully furnished. >> 19 baths. >> 19 baths? >> 19. >> that's a lot of bathing. >> yes, it is. >> this must be the trophy room. he had a lot of hardware to fill this room. he has a world out here. >> call it a playground for grown ups. more than seven acres including a stocked fishing pond, tennis

court. >> a nice round pool. >> perfect if you like swimming in circles. >> and a private presidenting green where air jordan putted around. for a mere $250,000 deposit, you can bid on the opportunity to live like mike. >> this home was listed at $29 million and most recently at $21 million. when it comes to the auction, we don't know what the price will be. >> this is the ultimate family room. i can see myself settling in sunday afternoon. me and michael and scottie maybe. this is no exaggeration is larger than the gym i go to at home. at the risk of being creepy, i have to check these out. a little piece of the magic. thank you. this is daddy's room. >> this is probably a big boy's room. >> worry a wine cellar large enough to stock more than 1,000

bottles. >> now michael is speaking my language down here. >> a man cave to beat all man caves. card tables, a lounge and cigars. >> this is the walk in. >> it is. look at this. >> this is a vault. wow. that's a lot of cigars. >> michael jordan had it figured out. i don't think michael will miss that one. there is one last thing i have to do. >> i just have a feeling. >> oh! >> that last one was ten feet. >> how did we get there? that was impressive.

>> so he's got the full court basketball arena in his home. he had one of them at 8 1/2. i went down and started dunking. i have the jordan jersey on it. i haven't dunked in a few years. bam. november 22nd is the auction. you want in, take a shot. >> that's my birthday. >> come on, donny. go for it. >> i put the bid in. scottie pippin moves in. >> you going to keep the 23 on the gate. that's the question. yeah? keep it? >> it puts it out there. >> you have to keep the gold. >> the real estate agent was very patient with you. >> very kind. >> that had to go back. >> they go to the net and kids for nantucket. >> we will get a look at what's

driving today's markets with cnbc's brian sullivan and john joins us here on set. we'll be right back.

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subterranean blues. okay. we will be looking forward to hearing about that. first, brian, let's start with you. stocks at record highs to open the week. >> kind of hard to believe and good morning, everyone. with all the problems and the shut down and the controversies out there. stocks kind of continue to chug on. i will say this. it goes into what john may be talking about. the european marks have outperformed the u.s. markets over the last couple of months. england is the best developed stock market in the world over the past 30 days. we had a very, very good year. the twitter ipo is coming up. apple earnings and facebook. we have a fed meeting although given the government shut down, the consensus on wall street is at the taper as we call it. the reduction of bond buying won't happen until march of next year. they want to put it back because they are concerned the shut down may have eaten away at u.s. gdp.

there is the week set up right there. >> thank you. we appreciate it. john, a fascinating cover talked about how regulations and taxes are driving u.s. corporations. >> what's interesting, if you look at american capitalism, you think of capitalism as big companies. what we have always analyzed. like fracking. some have to pay out all the money they make in the year. one example we use is a man who was looking like he was going to be the head of enron and now worth $100 billion. that's partly because he has been clever and the structure allows you to not pay as much tax and get out of the regulation that everyone else has to follow.

>> it's a fascinating dynamic where they look at the energy. the mlps, even though they are keeping profits, they are part of what helped build this boom in the country. some people look at it as rich getting richer and others say this is part of what is good about the energy boom. >> it's both. to some extent it's rich people who invest and on the other hand it's a new way of investing. you would like to have more ways to do these things, but the thing that strikes us is you don't want to end up with tax being the main reason. it feels strange to have companies that pay out all their profits. what's happening is american capitalism is being warped. sometimes in a good way, but slightly worrying way. >> that twists incentives. >> it was weird to imagine you look at the dow jones and a huge amount of what's happening in

america is not even remotely that. that's a big part. >> so we heard a decade ago when wall street had its first crisis that if we overregulate new york would stop being the financial center of the world and all the business would go to london and dodd frank in 2009 and 2010. is that happening? >> the answer is you have this brilliant system and dodd frank is bad and badly run and overly bureaucratic and nightmarish. everyone is competing and we on top of that had the glory of the european union. that is almost like that thing where you have two runners and you slam a very heavy sack on one with several tons of coal and the same to the other one. >> we lived through too big to fail and jpmorgan. it's up to 12 to $13 billion in

fines. should we be worried? >> some of the stuff that happens whenever you have a crunch, they deal with the last disaster. it goes off. some of them look straight forward with things that did go wrong. on the whole when i looked at where i am, american business has been better at flushing things through. if you look at citibank that may or may not be a brilliant bank, but they flushed through 400 billion. 200 billion out to the balance sheet. you look at all the big european banks and the most anyone has done is 30. you have to think citibank is much worse. >> thank you. >> the donald trump rule. we heard it before. if i have 90,000, that's my problem. if i have 9 billion, that's your problem. >> thank you. >> great to have you. the secret is out. hydration is in.

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>> here's your business travel forecast on monday. we will have airport issues through the west. a big 120er78 system in the inner mountain west that brings strong gusty winds for many areas out in arizona and new mexico and utah and even southern california. be careful traveling in those areas at any elevations. have a great day. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro. hall we do is go out to dinner.?

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i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. >> welcome back today. what did you learn some. >> >> the michael jordan mansion, all the money these people have and superstars can't find carpeting that is not tacky. >> wow. okay. >> what did you learn some. >> the episode of homeland where the vice president's pacemaker